Pick Research

[cutter]

Been playing my mandos around two years now. I'm happy with my progress thus far and am trying to speed my lead breaks up with good clarity. Been trying a few different pick thicknesses but can't seem to get past a Dunlop .71. I have been told that thicker picks are better (louder & less pick noise). Could use some feedback from you seasoned mando players.

Thanks In Advance

[Fred]

I definitely prefer thick. My latest fave is a Red Bear 1.5 large triangle--three picking edges. I'm going to try the D'Andrea ProPlec (again 1.5 mm) too as a less pricier version. I think a thicker pick brings out a better tone from the mandolin but each player has their own opinion on good tone so go with whatever you like best.

[cutter]

Thanks for the reply Fred,
I tried a 1.23 (I think it was). It did bring out better tone on both mandos. However, it seemed a bit "clunkey" on my tremolo picking as compared to a thinner pick. Guess it's a matter of getting used to.

Do you prefer a point or more rounded edge (been experimenting with a fingernail file)?

[Fred]

It does take some getting used to . I used to use somewhere between a .75 and 1.0 and the 1.5 just felt like a plank, but if you like the tone it forces you to really think about your right hand. That's always a good thing.

I like more of a point. I don't like a sharp point but I tried those rounded Dawg picks and couldn't make much of 'em. I need something that digs in a little more. I liked the Wegens (pre-beveled) for a year or more but gave them up for these here Red Bears. Wegens are a little clickier I think. Thing is, these Red Bears ain't cheap and I don't need the anxiety of losing a $20 pick at a campfire jam. I'm going to order those D'Andreas ($12-15 for a pack of 10 or something like that) pretty soon and give them a workout.

[cutter]

Yep, think I'll do the entire weekend of practice with the thicker pick just to see if I can get used to it. I did try rounding the edge some (thicker pick) but that made things "clunkier". Guess I'm used to that standard rounded edge on the Dunlops from guitar flat picking.
Thanks for the help and I'll let you know how I make out on that thicker pick.

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[Dub Martin]

Pick selection often varies with player, instrument and strings. We're all looking for great tone and volume in a pick that acts as a natural extension of our fingers and brains without us having to concentrate on it.

I think tone is the place to start. Choose a pick that lets you produce great tone and use it exclusively until it feels as though it's part of you. Use a heavy (1.2mm or greater) pick. I have three picks that seem to work best for me: the Wegen M150, the Red Bear Mondo-Hvy-SB, and a Pro Plec 1.5mm Rounded Triangle. The Wegen and Red Bear picks are beveled, the Pro Plec is not.

Technique has a lot to do with tone production too. I realize there are great players here who need no tips on technique from me so I hope no one is offended by my cheekiness here. My thoughts on technique include:

• Arrange your strap to support your mandolin so the elbow of your picking hand hangs loosely at your side straight down from your shoulder and is bent at an acute angle so your hand is slightly above your elbow. Your wrist should remain relaxed and straight, not arched.
• No portion of your picking hand should be planted or braced anywhere on the instrument. The heel of your hand may brush the bridge and the strings behind it but must not rest there.
• Hold your pick so it's lying flat on the side of your index finger with the business end pointing ninety degrees away from the plane of your fingernail. Lay your thumb across the pick so the line of your thumb and the tip of your index finger are parallel.
• Hold the pick with a lose grip and relax the other three fingers.
• Pick using a combination of wrist motion and finger motion. The wrist should move only back and forth in the plane of the back of your hand. Don't rotate your hand to pick.
• Use your noting hand to push the headstock of the mandolin out away from your body so the back is free to vibrate.
• If you hold the elbow of your picking hand out away from your body slightly, you'll be able to keep your noting wrist straight too and will give your fingers best access to the fretboard.

My advice is to spend a lot of time practicing tremolo tunes like Faded Love, A Maiden's Prayer, Somewhere, My Love, etc. until your tremolo is smooth and instantly available concentrating on relaxing your picking hand and grip. When you feel comfortable with the pick and the technique, work on some rhythmic tunes like Blue Grass Stomp, Gold Rush and maybe Woody's Rag.

Use a heavy pick. Pay careful attention to technique. Relax. Spend a lot of time playing.

[cutter]

Fred & Dub
Thanks for the insight. I did spend the weekend playing both of my mandos between the heavy pick and the .71mm I've become accustomed to. I used to play with a .60mm before moving to the .71mm. I just can't seem to get used to anything thicker than the old .71mm. Using the .71mm as compared to the .60 the notes rang louder and I seemed to get less pick noise. But going to any thicker pick although giving a more hollowed tone seems to lessen the brightness and crispness of the notes. The thicker pick also impedes my tremolo which is something (imho) that I've become good at (especially fills for the slower paced prettier tunes). Maybe it's just the way I hold my mouth or something I dunno.

I'll keep experimenting but for now it's the .71

Oh and Dub, I am experimenting with your sound advice in your last post. I find that I already heed to most of it (by accident probably ) - Thanks

[Dub Martin]

...The thicker pick also impedes my tremolo which is something (imho) that I've become good at (especially fills for the slower paced prettier tunes). Maybe it's just the way I hold my mouth or something I dunno.

If a heavy pick impedes your tremolo, it makes me think you are working the pick too deep between the strings. Try using a heavy 1.5mm pick and just let the tip of the pick glide over the tops of the strings. Don't try to get volume, just play for feel and technique.

Of course there are great mandolinists who violate all the rules and still make wonderful music. But I think it's worth six months of your time to play exclusively with a Wegen MD150 or ProPlec 1.5mm rounded triangle. If you only play one for a short time, it will just feel strange and uncomfortable compared to what you've been using. But if you dedicate your playing to the heavier picks and constantly reevaluate your grip, pick angle, muscle utilization, etc., you'll find a "sweet" way to use a heavy pick that will give you all sorts of new possibilities.

Of course YMMV.

[cutter]

Will give the it old college try Dub . I was rooting through a box of misc. picks I had last night. I came up with a couple of .73mm (just a tad heavier than what I'm using now). If my problem is technique than I'm wondering if I just graduated to a little thicker each month if that would get me up to par. I really want to get those lead breaks to stand out (with emphasis on volume without sacrificing tone) and I think the thicker pick is probably the way to go. I'll experiment on .

[cutter]

Been going with that .73 about a week now (playing time a little limited due to holiday stuff). Must say, gotten pretty used to it - starting to really feel comfortable. Another week or so and go up a couple of mms and see what happens.

[Dub Martin]

That sounds great, Cutter. I'm sure, with time, you'll appreciate a heavier pick.

Hope your holiday was wonderful.

[cutter]

Had a great jam yesterday at my place Dub. Used the .73mm exclusively. We worked on a lot of the slower/prettier pieces eg. "good woman's love", "aragon mill", "rose of my heart". The one big thing that seemed to stand out for me was how tight I was holding my pick. After a little while I naturally tended to loosen the grip a bit and tremolos started coming out nice with that hollowed sound and some better volume (hence one of your suggestions in the earlier post). I also found that I was slightly turning the pick kind of into the strings while chopping. This really made the chop pop on the faster stuff. It's surprising all the little subtleties to be gained by going to a thicker pick. The Eastman sounded pretty good yesterday. Think I'll find a .75mm or .76mm and see if I can get that up to par. It's a long way to hit that 1mm and heavier mark but I'm convinced that this is the way I'm gonna get there LOL.

Oh, one more question Dub. Another thing I'm finding is that when I go to my lead breaks my bottom three fingers have naturally started to straighten as in a sort of cupped position (they used to curl in more like a loose fist). Don't know if it's the thicker pick causing this or not but it seemed to happen more as the day progressed. It was commented that my breaks were cleaner & really coming through Is this just an individual comfort thing - bad or good?

As always, thanks for your help
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[Fred]

Oh, one more question Dub. Another thing I'm finding is that when I go to my lead breaks my bottom three fingers have naturally started to straighten as in a sort of cupped position (they used to curl in more like a loose fist). Don't know if it's the thicker pick causing this or not but it seemed to happen more as the day progressed. It was commented that my breaks were cleaner & really coming through Is this just an individual comfort thing - bad or good?

In general, straightening out those three fingers (middle, ring, pinky) is a bad thing. The hand's natural resting position is to have those three fingers curled up into a loose fist or at least flopping a little bit. Straightening them out tenses up the muscles and tendons controlling those fingers which eventually leads to tightening up...at least for me.

Everybody's got their own way of doing it and there are a handful of folks making a lotta money doing it the "wrong way" but as a rule it's best to avoid any possible tension in your picking hand.

[cutter]

Hi Fred
Hmmmm, definitely food for thought. Wish I had a mando here at work to play around with. Guess it'll have to be tonight

As always, thanks for the advice.

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[Dub Martin]

I think the cupped position is proper for the unused picking hand fingers. But that's only because I think that is the most relaxed position. The main thing is that they are relaxed. The image below of Grisman seems to illustrate what I mean but the others are pretty close to that too.

You'll find as you learn to relax and get fine control over a heavy pick that your accuracy will improve and you'll gain access to a wide range of expressive tones. Sounds like you're on the path to enlightenment.

David Grisman


Bill Monroe


Rhonda Vincent


Butch Baldassari


Don Stiernberg


Frank Wakefield