Fender FM63S Mandolin

[anniejoy]

Hello,
We have the opportunity to buy a Fender FM63S Mandolin, and were wondering if any of you have any experience or knowledge about this instrument. My sister is looking to upgrade her $150 Johnson A-style, and needs something MUCH better. She is already fairly advanced, and can easily play Steve Kaufmann's mandolin music. I guess a mid-range/upper level instrument is what we're looking for, and are wondering is this mandolin fits the bill.

Thanks in advance!

[Fred]

Hey Anniejoy:

A couple things stand out from your post that lead me to suggest that the Fender is probably not the best use of your $600 (its listing on a couple sites on line).

First, you say your sister is "fairly advanced" and that mid-range/upper level instrument is your goal. I don't believe the Fender fits that bill. It has little or no reputation in the mando community (I didn't even know Fender made them until you posted ). It features laminated sides and back, if I read their ad correctly. This is not the mark of quality in most cases. You should look for some type of solid spruce top as well as solid wood back (one piece or two pieces glued together) and sides (the solid wood is thinly cut and bent--steamed--into shape). Lastly, a mid-upper range mandolin will probably cost you $1500-3000. I know that's pricey, but the mark of quality is that so much of a mandolin (like a fiddle) is made by hand. Now, you haven't mentioned your price range so I'm not sure what to suggest. There are good mandolins at almost every break: you just need to look harder at certain prices.

I suggest browsing at http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi for better discussion of different brands in your price range. I also suggest perusing used Gibson A-1, A-2, A-3 or Ajr mandolins. These are often old (1900-1930's), well broken in, great sounding, and less than $2000. Because so many A-style mandolins were made by Gibson in those days, they are fairly common. Willies often has a couple in stock. I got a killer from LaVonne Music in Savage, MN, and I'm sure the Podium and/or Homestead sees them frequently. Play before you buy and play as many as you can to get an idea of the different sounds each kind of mando makes. Even within the range of Gibson A's there is an astounding breadth of tone possibilities. Some A's sound thin and stringy and some just sing.

Good luck!

[mark]

Well said Fred, but you didn't mention the Loar that's for sale http://bluegrassforum.com/phpBB2/viewto ... loar#p8899

The Fender does not sound like a deal to me either and it's not going to be much better that the Johnson you have. At this point in her musical career, the instrument is becoming her voice and needs to reflect that. Go forth and play many mandolins. The right one will make itself apparent.

A $600 Fender mandolin will lose money in resale and won't be the inspiring voice she seeks so it will require replacement in the (near) future. A better instrument, though more money now, will be with you longer and probably even appreciate in value. A LaPlant is a top notch mando and can be had for as little as $6000. You don't need to go to that extreme but something in the $2k range would be recommended.

Good Luck!

[GNelson651]

Funny, I can easily play Kauman's music for mandolin and I don't consider myself advance after 3 1/2 years of playing.

You don't indicate your price range or genre of music played. I have to assume its bluegrass since this is a Bluegrass Forum.

This can make some difference in the sound of the instrument one would like/need. It really doesn't matter in a starter instrument but as you move up in price range, it can be an important factor. An oval hole has good sustain and a good round sound for classical, Italian and Celtic but can't cut through the fiddle and banjo like an F hole in a jam situation i.e., Bluegrass or old-time.

My suggestion is to stay with an A style since you will get more bang for your buck. The F scroll is a nice strap hanger, looks cool , but does nothing to improve the sound and adds a few hundred dollars to the price. I know that most BG mandolin players prefer an F-style because "that is what Bill played" but I'm seeing alot more mandolinist, both professional and jammers, using A's at festivals these days.

I have an Eastman 805 which sounds good, looks good and is an instrument for the intermediate/advance player. The Eastman 505 can be found new for about the same price range as the Fender at $599 street value. The difference between the 805 and 505 is in the add-ons such as binding, tailpiece and fancier wood. For all practical purposes, these items do not add anything to the sound. Unlike the Fender, Eastmans are all handmade, use quality wood and are good sounding.

I've heard that Big Muddy (was Mid-Mo) are good mandolins for the money and in the same $600 price range, new. These are oval hole mandolins but are loud enough to cut through the banjos in most BG jam.

I do recommend that your sister play several first to find one that speaks to her. Don't just limit comparisons to the same price range of mandolin. Have your sister play the more and most expensive mandolins to get an idea of what they sound like. Recently, I had a fun time at Buffalo Bros. in Carlsbad, CA playing all their mandolins (if I had the money, I would have taken home the Collins MT---s-w-e-e-t).

You might want to check for used equipment as others have suggested. As has been commented, $600 will not buy alot of mandolin, it might be better to save up and get something used in the $1500-$2000 range like a used Gibson A-9.

Good luck in your search, let us know what your sister ends up with and how she likes it.

Glenn Nelson
Las Vegas, Nv

[anniejoy]

Ok, thanks! Sorry, maybe my definition of "advanced" is not quite right. We've only been playing bluegrass for a year, but the progress she's made is phenomonal. Maybe Kaufmann's stuff isn't terrible hard, but she can learn anything in there within a week and play it well at lightning speed.

Anyway...this Fender is a used, hardly ever been played instrument for $350 with hard case. She is on a very limited budget now, (she's only 13) but is desperate for anything better than what she has now. The Johnson she has now has absolutely no volume and sparkle, and it's frustrating her.

So, in retrospect, maybe I didn't portray things rightly. Bear with me - I've only been in this for a year! From what you all have said, a mid-range instrument would be more what she's looking for. We're not extremely fussy at this point, we just want an instrument that sounds good, will coroporate in her hands, and allow her to advance without frustration. Our family band playing is limited thus far to small, informal gatherings, and a few larger gigs, and it will be at least a couple years before she starts seriousely looking for an instrument worth keeping for a long time.

So, with those additions, any more thoughts? I really appreciate your time and input! This forum has been a great learning tool for me!

[Fred]

Anniejoy:

The new information helps some. I'd say your best bet, like Glenn said, is to take a look at some of the Eastman models--I've seen a few and they're well made, reasonably priced, and sound decent. They're made in China, but they're good quality. They will need a decent set up (as will any new instrument really) which will probably cost about $50. Take it to Homestead or Hoffman guitars and ask them to do a set up: they'll adjust the string height, the bridge, and the nut to make it easier to play and to make the mandolin's overall sound better. After that, you might have good luck with Kentucky's or Mid-Missouri, or Morgan Monroe. Look for solid woods throughout the instrument, get your sister to play them all and decide what she likes best, and take your time.

Also, Glenn said

My suggestion is to stay with an A style since you will get more bang for your buck. The F scroll is a nice strap hanger, looks cool , but does nothing to improve the sound and adds a few hundred dollars to the price. I know that most BG mandolin players prefer an F-style because "that is what Bill played" but I'm seeing alot more mandolinist, both professional and jammers, using A's at festivals these days.

.

I agree that there's no earthy reason why you have to have an F-style to play bluegrass, but I disagree that the F scroll does nothing to improve the sound. As someone who plays both, I can assure you that my F-style mandolin can do things the A cannot...and vice versa. It all depends on what sound you prefer.

[GNelson651]

Fred,

Thanks for your kind words in supporting some of my observations.

But I have to beg to differ on the F scroll providing sconically better sound. A few years ago there was a raging debate at the Mandolin Cafe regarding this very matter. The final consensus, based on scientific experientations, is that the addition of an F scroll provides no further sonic qualities to an instrument. The primary qfactors that do change sonic qualities is in the type of wood used, type of tone bars, thickness of the top, type of bridge and how the instrument was built, etc.

Sorry to burst your ballon, but your empirical observations are not supported by scientific method.

Now back to our original program:

I would concur and suggest you save your money and get the Eastman 505 for around $600. I think your sister will be better in the long run then to pay $350 for a mandolin she will be dissatisfied with in a few short months. Don't let desperation be your guiding principal, you will be sorry later. You can purchase a new 505 at The Mandolin Store that is already set up and the price of $599 includes shipping. Call Dennis Vance at 928-684-0212 and have him play a few over the phone (that is how I bought by Eastman-no financial interest here). Or you can wait and see if a used Eastman comes up in the classifieds at mandolincafe.com.

BTW: From your description, your sister is making great progress! Kaufman's stuff is not that easy so she's doing great to be able to play it up to speed in a week. I would say she is an intermediate player, which is darn good considering she's only been playing a year. I don't mean to disparage your comments, so I hope there is no offense.

[scrubber]

Sorry to burst your ballon...

Should that be 'balloon'? This post does not suggest any remorse.

I haven't read the Mandolin Cafe thread referred to but I am reluctant to accept anything presented as 'science' on an internet forum as fact. Whether the bias is empirical or scientific, however, GNelson651 and Fred are in agreement: "Try before you Buy"!

[Fred]

Glenn:

Yeah, you're right of course. I just assumed you were using the term "F scroll" metaphorically in order to refer to the entire F-style instrument. As you say, it isn't the scroll itself that imparts any tone but the top, the bracing, etc. OTOH, I do still maintain that an F-style instrument has important advantages in a bluegrass context and should not be discounted as merely an expensive and cosmetic scam job. A's are almost always cheaper and thus more accessible than an F which is one reason you see more of them around, but it takes a truly accomplished player can get them to play gritty and mean--which is the way I like the mandolin to sound in BG.

Lastly, when it gets right down to it, the discussion of A and F style mandos is a religious one, like Mac vs PC--no right answers possible.

I suppose if this moves more to this side of the discussion we should start a separate thread .

[NosbertWhistlepig]

it takes a truly accomplished player can get them to play gritty and mean.

Yes, but does it work the other way around? Can a truly gritty and mean player sound accomplished?

[GNelson651]

Glenn:

Lastly, when it gets right down to it, the discussion of A and F style mandos is a religious one, like Mac vs PC--no right answers possible.

I suppose if this moves more to this side of the discussion we should start a separate thread .

I have to admit that I like the looks of an F scroll and had scroll envy when I bought my MK Legacy Deluxe. I also have a Fullerton Gouchester F-style I bought from Music123 in a clearance sale for $180. I really don't care for the MK even though it has a hand carved top but prefer the Fullerton which is a Gibson F-9 copy but has a pressed top. The Fullerton just has that "bluegrass" sound and is my festival mandolin. I also have two Eastmans, an A f-hole 805 an an A-oval hole 504.

The difference in sound of each one makes them unique enough that I use each one for different purposes. My main axe, the Eastman 805 I use for oldtime jams. The Eastman 504 I use for playing in church and the Fullerton I use for festivals.

But taking into consideration that the original poster has limit funds, I truly believe that an A-style would be the best choice. That being said, an F-style has its own class, especially in the bluegrass context. But an A will do the job just as well.

[dmiller]

Perhaps this suggestion is being offered too late (you may have already gotten a new mandolin), but I would like to recommend the Kentucky A model also. Good sounding instrument, made out of solid wood (no laminations), and at a price that is very affordable (less than/ or right around $500.00). I had one of these once myself, and was very pleased with it.

Good luck in your search!

David

[david blair]

So, what happened? I guess our poster child went away.

Fender makes pretty cool stuff, and probably about as good as many of the other ideas mentioned. I would like to add or point out that a good setup, string choice, and also choice of picks can make a huge difference in volume and tone. Perhaps the Fender could use a set up, and our thirteen year old girl some coaching.

She could have Kaufman shaking in his boots! Sam Bush hasn't been the same since Sierra Hull showed him up. And how's about the story of Monroe at the Opry one succumbing to audience pressure and saying "so where is this Ricky Skaggs?" Six years old at the time.

to funny

Alright, if it's a new one, how about an Old Wave, made in Utah?